Think Then Speak
I don’t spend a lot of time on the AAR message boards. Honestly, I spend almost zero time on the AAR message boards. Not that I have anything against AAR or message boards, it’s just that I already have 400 ways to procrastinate and ignore deadlines. I really can’t afford to go looking for way number 401.
Having said that, I did pop over yesterday. While reading along on Karen’s site, I came across her entry: Extra, Extra, Laura Lee Guhrke Writes For EC… Sorry, My Mistake.. Being the nosy type, I followed the link and went over to the AAR message boards. The dust-up may be over now (let’s hope), but who knows.
It would appear Laura Lee Guhrke and Jaid Black ( aka Tina Engler and founder of Ellora’s Cave) had a bit of a public tiff. As someone who doesn’t know Guhrke or Black/Engler, one who doesn’t write for EC, one who doesn’t read that much EC and one who doesn’t have a dog in this fight (a terrible saying, I’m sorry), I offer the following for future debates such as these:
1. The General Rule. This one applies to EC arguments and arguments about any other topic you can think of: when you don’t know the facts, avoid the argument. When you don’t know the facts and happen to be arguing with those who do, don’t just avoid the argument - run from it.
2. When arguing about the success and money making ability of EC, do not argue with the founder and person in charge of EC then try to pretend you know more than she does. That’s just stupid.
3. When confronted with the fact you do not know what in the hell you are talking about concerning EC, do not challenge the founder and person in charge of EC to post her royalty statements in order to prove that EC is doing as financially well as claimed, all while insisting that you aren’t calling anyone a liar. This goes beyond stupid. And, yes, any way you look at it, asking for proof to back up a point is an implicit way of saying “liar, liar pants on fire.” Ask any 7 year old.
4. Do not get huffy and defensive if you launch the first grenade and someone actually has the sense to pick it up and lob it back at you. The defensive thing is human nature, especially when someone misspells your last name. Believe me, I know about name misspellings. But, you know what, it’s still stupid.
5. Once it is clear to everyone reading along that you have lost the argument and are trying to prove a baseless contention and one about which you have no personal knowledge anyway (even though your comments try to suggest you do), back down. Really, just back down. Continuing to insist your point is the correct one when authors of EC have tried to politely explain that you may have some misinformation (kudos to Kate Douglas, Sylvia Day and Sarah McCarty and the others who tried) defies comprehension. Re-think your debate skills.
6. Never again write on a public message board that earning $60,000 per year writing novellas (about 100 page books) is insignificant. Are you kidding me? The anthology that includes my first novella came out in April, was on the Borders’ Romance Bestseller list for 6 weeks and has been on Bookscan’s Top Romance list for 9 weeks and counting (all thanks to Lori Foster and Erin McCarthy and their amazing fans - thank you again, ladies). The great numbers and being combined in an anthology with a NYT (and everything else) Bestseller and a USA Today Bestseller translates to something more like $6,000 so far. So, writing novellas and earning a steady and consistent $60,000 per year for doing it sounds okay to me. Go visit Brenda Hiatt’s site and get a reality check.
7. And, when having your final say after all of this - concede. Yeah, that’s right, admit defeat and move on with grace. After being told your information and assumptions are wrong, absolutely do not say anything that even remotely goes like this (which, unfortunately, is a direct quote):
“As for EC, $3 million a year in sales IS a drop in the bucket of publishing, and I stand by that statement. It was not meant to be a put-down of EC in any way. As I said, EC may survive, they may grow, but IMO, their growth will be slow. Again, this was not meant to be a put-down. It’s just my view. As for my comment about EC authors being paid next to nothing, I based that conclusion on simple math and their channels of distribution. There are over 200 EC authors listed on their site and $3 million in sales last year. That means that on average EC authors make $5800 a year.”
8. Which leads to a point on the romance industry: Know what’s happening out there in your genre and others. Pick up a newspaper, watch the market trends or get a subscription to PW. Despite my limited experience with EC, I know what’s happening there and how impressive it is. Just like I know inspirationals and erotica are hot now even though I don’t write either. Just like I know about Silhouette Nocturne and Epic even though I don’t write category romance. Just like I know about the American Title contest over at Dorchester even though I’m not published with Dorchester and am not looking for this type of opportunity.
This is why I try to stay off message boards. Makes me crazed.
May 25th, 2006 at 9:13 am
You summarized the entire situation quite nicely.
May 25th, 2006 at 9:16 am
As I said, EC may survive, they may grow, but IMO, their growth will be slow. Again, this was not meant to be a put-down. It’s just my view.
Uh-huh. Since so far the evidence has shown this happening?? Good grief. Why would anyone look at EC’s history and form an opinion that their growth will be slow and that they *may* survive when they have gone from a gleam in Tina’s eye to a mutli-million dollar publisher in five years, is it? Yeah, that comment makes a lot of sense.
Like you, I’m floored when authors in the industry don’t know the industry, even the portions of it that have nothing to do with their careers. I guess this comes from working in a corporate environment for 15+ years before leaving to write full time. My ear is always to the ground because this IS a business.
May 25th, 2006 at 10:24 am
Alison, I totally agree with you on people not knowing the industry they’re in… but worse, I worry about the lack of common sense of continuing a pissy fit with a publisher (or, really, anyone) in the industry in such a public forum. I’ve seen countless people blog about this situation in the past couple of days. These names are getting out there. And it doesn’t look good on the ones who are just making themselves look foolish. If I were an editor or publisher who saw this, I’m pretty sure I’d think twice about wanting to work with them… even if it wasn’t my house that was being attacked.
May 25th, 2006 at 10:27 am
Nicely put HK. I must admit, my first genuine thought when she wrote her initial post, was how the hell does she know that the authors get paid next to nothing. My second thought was, gotta tell Tina, so I e-mailed her the link. (really, stupidity should never go unrewarded).
I didn’t actually expect her to post, but I must admit, it was quite surreal witnessing one best selling author make a tw*t of herself by talking arse about things she obviously knew nothing about. It amused me greatly when she flounced off in a huff, and then decided to clarify her points. Even the clarification post showed her ignorance. You just can’t help some people.
Oh well, I’ve never read her books before, so needless to say, she wont be seeing a penny of it in the future.
May 25th, 2006 at 12:19 pm
Great post, HelenKay.
I don’t visit message boards often, either, so this is the first I’ve heard of the tiff. But, cripes, ask any epublished author if $5800 is a drop in the bucket. Most epubbed authors are lucky to make $580 a year. Heck, some are lucky to make $58 a year! That Ellora’s Cave continues to defy the conventions of the epublishing world is something to be celebrated, regardless of whether or not someone approves of erotica and/or erotic romance (I have no idea of the original poster’s opinion on that matter, btw).
Go, Ellora’s Cave!
Cindy,
who does not write for EC but is an epublished author and knows good epubbed money when she reads about it.
May 25th, 2006 at 12:57 pm
Great list of advice.
This was definitely an interesting post. I’m always amazed by what people will throw out there. The $60K a year thing is where my brain screeched to a grinding halt. I went to her site and read through her bio. It indirectly answered a lot of my questions about where that particular statement came from. And that’s all I’m going to say about it. 
May 25th, 2006 at 1:17 pm
As an aspiring author who works full time and makes somewhere in the neighborhood of $0 per year writing, I’m thinking $60K a year sounds pretty damn good. I’d be willing to quit my job and write full time with that income. No, it’s not eating-steak-at-Ruth’s-Chris-every-weekend money, but it is working-for-yourself-and-not-the-man money. There’s something to be said for that.
May 25th, 2006 at 1:19 pm
As it is, the $5800 a year sounds pretty attractive to me.
May 25th, 2006 at 6:56 pm
$60K a year isn’t good? I’d say you can live quite nicely on that much a year. In fact, I have.
And yeah, I agree with what Jordan says after reading LLG’s site.
May 26th, 2006 at 5:37 am
Nicely put…
My thing with EC as a company is, like it or hate it - hell like Jaid Black or hate her and or her writing - how can you not respect what she has created in the company.
NY is busting its balls trying to copy it. Will they do it better? Maybe, maybe not… but no matter what in my small reader mind Jaid Black has a hell of a lot to be proud of.