Manly Men
Alison Kent posted her Top Ten List (see yesterday’s blog). She said this:
My heroes will sound like men, including having foul mouths when it’s in character. They can talk cooking as well as sports, but they will not be girls in men suits.
Yes. God, yes.
This is a biggie for me too. I try very hard to make sure my guys are guys and not me trying to sound like a guy. It’s a concentrated effort. For example, here’s a brief back-and-forth from the novella I just wrote where the hero (Spence, a lawyer) and heroine (Natalie, a probation officer) are arguing about a case and Nat’s belief that Spence is too emotionally detached from his work. This one comes out in October 2008 in the antho TO ALL A GOOD NIGHT.
“See, I knew it. You care even though you pretend you don’t.” She clapped her hands in triumph. “You know what that makes you?”
“A girl?”
“I’m going to pretend I didn’t hear that sexist remark.”
“I can talk louder,” he said.
“It makes you a decent guy.”
“That’s a shitty thing to say.”
Seems like a typical guy reaction to me.
Are we alone? Do you notice times when a guy sound like something other than a guy in a romance novel?
January 9th, 2008 at 12:06 pm
Ha! I love this!
My husband reads and edits for me. He’s the first to tell me “No guy would talk like that”. He definitely defeminizes my guys. Thank God. There’s nothing worse than the hero sounding exactly like the heroine. Bleh.
January 9th, 2008 at 1:02 pm
I love your snippet.
Four of my actor friends were kind enough to read my dialogue out loud. It required only a few tweaks, since I evidently “think like a dude.”
I’m still not entirely sure that’s a compliment…
January 9th, 2008 at 2:17 pm
Love it!
January 9th, 2008 at 4:21 pm
I love the snippet that you gave us. And he so sounds like a guy.
January 9th, 2008 at 7:10 pm
I can see I am going to like this one with a really snappy & witty dialogue.
January 10th, 2008 at 12:32 am
Love the snippet!!
Hell, I always love the dialogue in your books. Always sassy and real. *grin*
January 10th, 2008 at 4:22 am
Great example, and yeah, we might not always like what guys say, but I still want them to sound like guys. There’s definitely a difference, and it’s jarring when a hero says something that a woman would say - it’s too weird.
January 10th, 2008 at 7:38 am
I like guys to sound like guys. Can’t wait to read this book!!!
January 10th, 2008 at 8:45 am
You nail the way guys talk!
January 10th, 2008 at 10:45 am
In an early draft of my first YA I had a 17 year-old boy NOT have sex with his girlfriend because he thought she was doing it just to spite her dad. Mr. Wonderful shook his head and said “You made him into a girl.”
January 10th, 2008 at 11:23 am
HelenKay, that clip was awesome! And just chiming in to agree with everyone who says that you do nail the dialogue really well!
January 10th, 2008 at 11:51 am
[...] HelenKay Dimon did a blog post yesterday about Manly men. Men who talk like real men in romance novels (and this is why we love them ). She was so right on, and she posted a snippet of dialogue from one of her books that was fabulous! Go read it. [...]
January 10th, 2008 at 12:07 pm
I meant to reply yesterday and got sidetracked.
This was one of my biggest complaints about Sydney Croft’s “Riding the Storm” - the men all sounded like they were written by a woman. There’s just no way in hell a man would say the things they did. The irony is that they’re a writing team containing a man, aren’t they?
This is one of the things that will push me right out of a story.
January 10th, 2008 at 12:08 pm
OMG, yes!! And it drives me nutz.
When that occurs it pulls me right out of the story. All I can think is…”Yeah, I can thse words coming out of my husband’s mouth! A real guy would never say that!!”
Somewhere between Gordon Ramsay and Jack McFarland usually works for me!
January 10th, 2008 at 12:10 pm
“That’s a shitty thing to say.”
I love it, Helen!! And yes, I notice when I’m reading a romance and the hero sounds less than man..cough, cough….And even though it sometimes comes across as rougher, tougher to take, and abrasive…that’s how most men are, or at least the manly men I like to read about!! You nailed it, girl!!
January 10th, 2008 at 12:11 pm
Gwen, Sydney Croft is two women. Both of whom I have read separately, but not as a team…yet!
January 10th, 2008 at 1:17 pm
Fuck, yeah.
January 10th, 2008 at 1:28 pm
Thanks guys!! Your comments made my day. And my husband’s reaction shows you why it’s easy for me to guess what a guy would say. He unwittingly feeds me a great deal of information.
Darlene - We have the same husband. In fact both Mr. Wonderful (yours) and my hubby had the same reaction to the slight delay in the sex scene in YOUR MOUTH DRIVES ME CRAZY. Both said: no way would the guy wait. When I tried to explain that Kane (the hero) was testing the heroine my hubby said: No way. Guys aren’t that clever about stuff like that.
There you go!
January 10th, 2008 at 3:11 pm
Angie-la - shows you what I know.
And high-five to HK’s hubby. Shit-yeah!
January 10th, 2008 at 5:56 pm
My hubby also tells me “No guy would do that,” about certain situations in my books. Sometimes his advice is dead on and other times I ignore him. After all, we’re talking about a romantic hero here, not just a regular “guy.” And there are certainly things regular guys say that I don’t want my romantic hero saying. Like, “When are you making dinner?”
Have to agree with the raves about your dialogue, HelenKay. There was one point in Your Mouth Drives Me Crazy when the heroine’s internal dialogue (what she’s thinking, rather than saying) made me laugh out loud.
January 16th, 2008 at 10:05 am
Gwen, what’s really ironic about what you said is that in your original review you said it sounded like the men were written by women who don’t know military men — thing is, I was raised around the military, was IN the military, am married to the military, and we had three military men (one special forces) read the book…and they all thought it was fine.
*shrugs* I’ve also had people tell me that certain weather events can’t happen — when, being in the meteorology field, I know they can…so I guess the trick is just being convincing.
Sorry you didn’t like our men!
January 16th, 2008 at 10:08 am
BTW, HelenKay, love the snippet! *g*
January 16th, 2008 at 10:49 am
Thanks everyone!
Larissa - On that subject…there are always going to be things that work for one person and not another. My book VIVA LAS BAD BOYS takes place during a power outage at a Las Vegas casino. Some readers and reviewers said the idea was far-fetched. Yeah, well, it happened. I was there and experienced it. The hubby and I were at the Bellagio and the electricity went out for three days. I took photos and they’re posted on this website as proof. Still, people don’t believe. Guess that goes to show the “stranger than fiction” idea is sometimes true.
January 16th, 2008 at 1:26 pm
HelenKay, you are SO right! (Hope I didn’t sound like I was bitching — I don’t think I completed my thought well!) My point was pretty much just what you said — what works for one person might not work for another no matter what you do. In a lot of cases, it could come down to voice, as well, and how you write the subject matter. I’ve found too, that if someone doesn’t like the author, then it pretty doesn’t matter what they write — the reader is going to find fault.
Personally, I love your writing, so if you tell me that purple unicorns right New York subways on a daily basis, I’m going to buy it.