Comments on: The Elephant In The Room http://helenkaydimon.com/blog/2008/01/the-elephant-in-the-room/ SEXY, SASSY, SMART ROMANTIC FICTION Sat, 04 Feb 2012 21:44:08 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Tris http://helenkaydimon.com/blog/2008/01/the-elephant-in-the-room/#comment-23239 Tris Mon, 21 Jan 2008 02:28:05 +0000 http://helenkaydimon.com/blog/2008/01/the-elephant-in-the-room/#comment-23239 I agree with you. I have been trying to figure out since the story broke how she could copy and paste instead of reading the section and sitting back thinking about what she just read then writing it in her own words to fit the story she was writing. Isn't that what writers are supposed to do? Take things they know, things they learn about and use their own words? She is supposed to be a creative writer and all of that, I've never read a book of hers so I'm just assuming. But I don't know it just seems like people don't understand that concept of writing either so they don't get mad about it. I agree with you. I have been trying to figure out since the story broke how she could copy and paste instead of reading the section and sitting back thinking about what she just read then writing it in her own words to fit the story she was writing. Isn’t that what writers are supposed to do? Take things they know, things they learn about and use their own words? She is supposed to be a creative writer and all of that, I’ve never read a book of hers so I’m just assuming. But I don’t know it just seems like people don’t understand that concept of writing either so they don’t get mad about it.

]]> By: Patricia Treskovich http://helenkaydimon.com/blog/2008/01/the-elephant-in-the-room/#comment-22476 Patricia Treskovich Wed, 16 Jan 2008 13:06:20 +0000 http://helenkaydimon.com/blog/2008/01/the-elephant-in-the-room/#comment-22476 Sorry there is such a problem with copying others works, but unfortunately there is no way to make people ethical in any job, it seems, Sorry there is such a problem with copying others works, but unfortunately there is no way to make people ethical in any job, it seems,

]]> By: Karen Scott http://helenkaydimon.com/blog/2008/01/the-elephant-in-the-room/#comment-22366 Karen Scott Tue, 15 Jan 2008 23:01:14 +0000 http://helenkaydimon.com/blog/2008/01/the-elephant-in-the-room/#comment-22366 Word. Word.

]]> By: Fedora http://helenkaydimon.com/blog/2008/01/the-elephant-in-the-room/#comment-22359 Fedora Tue, 15 Jan 2008 22:18:12 +0000 http://helenkaydimon.com/blog/2008/01/the-elephant-in-the-room/#comment-22359 Thank you, HelenKay, and Nora R, and others of you writers who are also wonderful voices of reason in this mess. Ugh! Thank you, HelenKay, and Nora R, and others of you writers who are also wonderful voices of reason in this mess. Ugh!

]]> By: Jennifer Estep http://helenkaydimon.com/blog/2008/01/the-elephant-in-the-room/#comment-22333 Jennifer Estep Tue, 15 Jan 2008 19:52:32 +0000 http://helenkaydimon.com/blog/2008/01/the-elephant-in-the-room/#comment-22333 Good post, HelenKay. Plagarism is wrong, and I agree with you that that principle, that ideal, should be obvious. I always wondered *why* someone would plagarize, especially a writer who's supposed to love, well, writing. Sure, it might be quick and easy, and maybe someone's under enormous pressure, financial or otherwise. But deep down you would know the words weren't *yours*. Wouldn't that just eat away at you? Not to mention karmic retribution somewhere down the line ... Good post, HelenKay. Plagarism is wrong, and I agree with you that that principle, that ideal, should be obvious.

I always wondered *why* someone would plagarize, especially a writer who’s supposed to love, well, writing. Sure, it might be quick and easy, and maybe someone’s under enormous pressure, financial or otherwise. But deep down you would know the words weren’t *yours*. Wouldn’t that just eat away at you? Not to mention karmic retribution somewhere down the line …

]]> By: HelenKay http://helenkaydimon.com/blog/2008/01/the-elephant-in-the-room/#comment-22322 HelenKay Tue, 15 Jan 2008 18:46:25 +0000 http://helenkaydimon.com/blog/2008/01/the-elephant-in-the-room/#comment-22322 Many of us write for a living. We should understand how precious and the words and phrases are. Stepping up and stating that taking the work of others and making it your own is wrong is not a pile on. Frankly, it's common sense or at least I thought it was. I stayed somewhat quiet on this subject not out of fear but because it seemed so obvious. It was not until I saw post after post and read email after email where the conversation shifted "how dare the Smart Bitches" and "but Cassie Edwards is 71 so we should cut her a break" and the like that I decided to say something. As Nora says, if we don't stand up who the heck will? And I think we need to keep talking about this. There are apologists who try to explain away plagiarism and copyright infringement by looking at what's happening in the accused person's life. There is a person on one loop I'm on who insists you can't steal nonfiction work. In her view, you can take whatever you want out of nonfiction and make it your own since it's only a reference. I'm still trying to figure out that logic. There are those who say we should keep quiet because this situation reflects poorly on the romance genre. I say all of that is crap. This happens across all genres. This is not a romance thing. At the moment, however, it's a Cassie Edwards thing and she happens to be a romance author. We need to deal with it and keep talking about it until all of the excuses and confusion are gone. We need to show that we "get" it. Using work as a reference is fine. Taking it word-for-word is not. If you get all of your background and use significant information from a nonfiction source, then say what you need to say in your own words and include an Author's Note that gives credit to the nonfiction book. Many of us write for a living. We should understand how precious and the words and phrases are. Stepping up and stating that taking the work of others and making it your own is wrong is not a pile on. Frankly, it’s common sense or at least I thought it was. I stayed somewhat quiet on this subject not out of fear but because it seemed so obvious. It was not until I saw post after post and read email after email where the conversation shifted “how dare the Smart Bitches” and “but Cassie Edwards is 71 so we should cut her a break” and the like that I decided to say something. As Nora says, if we don’t stand up who the heck will?

And I think we need to keep talking about this. There are apologists who try to explain away plagiarism and copyright infringement by looking at what’s happening in the accused person’s life. There is a person on one loop I’m on who insists you can’t steal nonfiction work. In her view, you can take whatever you want out of nonfiction and make it your own since it’s only a reference. I’m still trying to figure out that logic. There are those who say we should keep quiet because this situation reflects poorly on the romance genre. I say all of that is crap. This happens across all genres. This is not a romance thing. At the moment, however, it’s a Cassie Edwards thing and she happens to be a romance author. We need to deal with it and keep talking about it until all of the excuses and confusion are gone. We need to show that we “get” it. Using work as a reference is fine. Taking it word-for-word is not. If you get all of your background and use significant information from a nonfiction source, then say what you need to say in your own words and include an Author’s Note that gives credit to the nonfiction book.

]]> By: Nora Roberts http://helenkaydimon.com/blog/2008/01/the-elephant-in-the-room/#comment-22297 Nora Roberts Tue, 15 Jan 2008 16:20:24 +0000 http://helenkaydimon.com/blog/2008/01/the-elephant-in-the-room/#comment-22297 Thanks, HelenKay. ~Once you’ve said, “Plagiarism is theft,” what else is there to say, really, particularly to those who insist no wrong was done? ~ A lot, I think, especially to those who insisted or stated that because they simply didn't understand the issue. Making the issue clear, discussing the issue, educating both readers and writers on just what plagiarism and copyright infringement are is, imo, an important thing. I don't agree silence means those who choose to remain so approve of plagiarism, or don't see it as a big. But I was, and am, suprised--as I was back when I was dealing with it--that so many in our community choose silence. That so many seem to feel by speaking they're adding to a 'pile-on', as I've heard it called. If writers won't stand up and say plagiarism is wrong, who will? Thanks, HelenKay.

~Once you’ve said, “Plagiarism is theft,” what else is there to say, really, particularly to those who insist no wrong was done? ~

A lot, I think, especially to those who insisted or stated that because they simply didn’t understand the issue. Making the issue clear, discussing the issue, educating both readers and writers on just what plagiarism and copyright infringement are is, imo, an important thing.

I don’t agree silence means those who choose to remain so approve of plagiarism, or don’t see it as a big. But I was, and am, suprised–as I was back when I was dealing with it–that so many in our community choose silence. That so many seem to feel by speaking they’re adding to a ‘pile-on’, as I’ve heard it called.

If writers won’t stand up and say plagiarism is wrong, who will?

]]> By: Alison http://helenkaydimon.com/blog/2008/01/the-elephant-in-the-room/#comment-22293 Alison Tue, 15 Jan 2008 16:02:23 +0000 http://helenkaydimon.com/blog/2008/01/the-elephant-in-the-room/#comment-22293 <i>there’s a ridiculous amount of discourse about how awful the Smart Bitches are for speaking ill of Edwards all while the speakers say awful things about the Smart Bitches.</i> I'd add my <a href="http://www.alisonkent.com/blog/archives/2375" rel="nofollow">pot / kettle graphic</a> here if I could because, yeah. The hypocrisy amazes. there’s a ridiculous amount of discourse about how awful the Smart Bitches are for speaking ill of Edwards all while the speakers say awful things about the Smart Bitches.

I’d add my pot / kettle graphic here if I could because, yeah. The hypocrisy amazes.

]]> By: Kerry Allen http://helenkaydimon.com/blog/2008/01/the-elephant-in-the-room/#comment-22276 Kerry Allen Tue, 15 Jan 2008 14:49:04 +0000 http://helenkaydimon.com/blog/2008/01/the-elephant-in-the-room/#comment-22276 Bringing it to light was the right thing to do. Numerous examples of the offense have been documented. It has been brought to the attention of the author, the publisher, the offended parties, the media, and the reading public. Once you've said, "Plagiarism is theft," what else is there to say, really, particularly to those who insist no wrong was done? Those left shaking their heads over that incomprehensible and immovable stance are catching flak for not adding to the hubbub, as if whoever makes the most noise wins and they're not doing their share. Meljean wrote an <a href="http://meljeanbrook.com/blog/archives/490" rel="nofollow">extremely eloquent piece</a> that gets to the heart of why plagiarism is an insult to writers everywhere. Bringing it to light was the right thing to do. Numerous examples of the offense have been documented. It has been brought to the attention of the author, the publisher, the offended parties, the media, and the reading public. Once you’ve said, “Plagiarism is theft,” what else is there to say, really, particularly to those who insist no wrong was done? Those left shaking their heads over that incomprehensible and immovable stance are catching flak for not adding to the hubbub, as if whoever makes the most noise wins and they’re not doing their share.

Meljean wrote an extremely eloquent piece that gets to the heart of why plagiarism is an insult to writers everywhere.

]]> By: Diana Peterfreund http://helenkaydimon.com/blog/2008/01/the-elephant-in-the-room/#comment-22265 Diana Peterfreund Tue, 15 Jan 2008 14:03:15 +0000 http://helenkaydimon.com/blog/2008/01/the-elephant-in-the-room/#comment-22265 Leave the country for two weeks... I'm glad I'm not on those lists! My lists have been burning up with authors condemning Edwards! I had hundreds of digests to weed through. Leave the country for two weeks…

I’m glad I’m not on those lists! My lists have been burning up with authors condemning Edwards! I had hundreds of digests to weed through.

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